Running Into The Fog
Heather Kenny

Heather Kenny

July 20, 2021

“Teachers default to practices that they experienced themselves as a student,” explains Heather Kenny, President of Unleashed Innovation, Inc. and Creator of Sounder & Friends™. Educator turned entrepreneur, Heather has a deep understanding of the power of literacy to inform one’s life trajectory. Unfortunately, progress is quite slow in the educational world surrounding evidence-based practices; instead, new teachers tend to revert back to the strategies that they encountered as students, which are oftentimes out-of-date and not nearly as effective as newer models.

Heather first began to develop her passion for literacy as a kindergarten teacher at an overcrowded elementary school. In this role, she quickly realized that the most important gift she could give her students was the gift of literacy. One of Heather’s coworkers at the time learned about the concept of phonemic awareness, which is the ability to hear and play with individual sounds (phonemes) in spoken words. Heather began brainstorming ways she could introduce a great focus on phonemic awareness into her classroom to lay the groundwork for her students’ future reading instruction.

Fast forward to 2021, Heather has now created an engaging and entertaining way for kids to develop their phonemic awareness in the form of Sounder & Friends™, an educational adventure show. Tune into this week’s episode of Running Into the Fog for a conversation with Heather about literacy, phonemic awareness and her journey from educator to entrepreneur.

 

Quotes

• “If children aren’t entertained, then they’re not going to want to watch it again. And if we don’t have their attention, then we can’t teach them anything.” (28:16-28:22)

• “Ours is a highly literate society, and in order to have access and to be considered a full-fledged, contributing, respected member of that society, you have to be literate. Otherwise, there's this incredible sense of shame that you carry around with you. What learners tend to do is they tend to internalize it...and as a result, there's a sense of overwhelming shame… So, if you can imagine what that's like to go through your entire life, feeling this sense of shame, feeling like there's this terrible secret that you can't let anybody in on.” (34:22-35:23)

• “If we can develop these skills, and we can make parents and teachers aware of how important it is that they develop proficiency early on, then children's brains will be primed for reading by the time they get to first grade, kindergarten even, when reading instruction really begins in earnest.” (40:27-40:43)

• “Phonemic awareness is particularly relevant to children who are at risk for experiencing reading difficulties. And children in that adoptive category definitely fall into that category as at risk.” (46:25-46:39)

• “If a child is floundering, we should be stepping in and giving them supports. If they're not able to do it on their own, that means they don't have the right support structure in place. So either the task is far too difficult or we're not providing the right kinds of supports.” (49:34-49:46)

 

Links:

Connect with Unleashed Innovation:

• Website: https://www.unleashed-innovation.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/unleashed-innovation/

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UnleashedInnovation/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/unleashed_inno

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/unleashed_innovation/

 

Connect with Sounder & Friends™:

• Store: https://store.sounderandfriends.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/70050966/admin/

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SounderFriends/

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/friendssounder

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sounder_and_friends/

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sounder_and_friends

• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEhiYc9ALWque3nVTQhvmHw

 

https://aurorawdc.com/ 

Arik JohnsonLinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/ 

Derek JohnsonLinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Mike Moh

Mike Moh

July 6, 2021

Mike Moh grew up as a minority in a predominantly white suburb and recognized from an early age that he was different. But rather than fading into the background, Mike instead became the class clown and got involved in a wide range of community activities. However, it wasn’t until Mike began taking taekwondo classes at his local dojo that he began to fully understand what true passion feels like. Since then, martial arts has become the foundation of Mike’s life, and he has made it his mission to pass his passion along to others. 

Mike’s martial arts training also helped him jumpstart his acting career, which he pursued in full force during his early 20s. Mike’s roles have ranged from working as a stuntman with Jackie Chan on the film “Robin-B-Hood” to small appearances in several commercials and TV shows to his most recent appearance as Bruce Lee in “Once Upon a Time...In Hollywood.” Mike explains that acting has required a great degree of mental toughness since the rate of rejection is so high. Luckily, this is a skill that he has been cultivating for decades as part of his taekwondo training.

Join the Jo Bros on this week’s episode of Running Into the Fog for a conversation with Mike Moh about finding opportunities within every challenge. Learn about the successes and roadblocks Mike has faced as an Asian American in the movie industry, the joy he finds in being underestimated, and how he has managed to create a thriving martial arts school in the small town of Waunakee, WI against all odds.

 

Quotes

• “So all we can do is respond, and respond with, you know, whether it's a kick or punch, we've got to respond and counter. And that's what we did. And, you know, there's going to be more challenges in the future and knowing that we can navigate this one, which was a pretty tough one – we can handle it all.” (6:00-6:17) 

• “I got a call from Jackie Chan’s people…. Then fast forward a month, I'm in Hong Kong on my first-ever movie set with Jackie Chan, one of the guys that I idolized.” (17:05-17:20)

• “I'm not a scholar in this area, but I know for a fact most people go throughout their entire life without knowing truly what they're capable of…. If I had to go level 0 to 100 (100 being the absolute limit of what you can physically, mentally and emotionally take), I'd say most people live in this 40 to 60 range. And they think that the 60 is their 100 — but they have no idea.” (20:53-21:20)

• “As an actor, I've been turned down many, many times, whether it's for Bruce Lee or for whatever else. And, I don't know any other profession where a 2% success rate is a huge success. I don't know any other industry. So, as an actor, mental and emotional strength is such a big thing.” (26:02-26:29)

 

Links:

@mohsmartialarts @mikemoh 

 

https://aurorawdc.com/ 

Arik JohnsonLinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/ 

Derek JohnsonLinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Rich Caldwell

Rich Caldwell

June 22, 2021

“When a paradigm shifts, if you don’t shift with it, you’re going to be history,” says Rich Caldwell, Sector Manager of Strategic Landscape Assessments at Northrop Grumman. Rich has experienced his fair share of paradigm shifts throughout his extensive career, which has included working as a Communications Squad Commander in the US Air Force, as a Space Crew Commander at Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center, as a J33 CSOD Action Officer on the Joint Staff of the Pentagon, and in his current role at Northrop Grumman.

Now, Rich’s greatest passion is using his wealth of knowledge and experience in the world of CI to cultivate the young people at his company into future leaders. He explains that he calls his young employees his “kids” and gives them a two-year deadline to work on his team before kicking them out, since by then he hopes they will have learned and grown enough to move onto bigger and better things!

Join the Jo Bros on this week’s episode of Running Into the Fog for a conversation with Rich about his background in CI and his predictions for the future of the industry. Learn why Rich believes we should introduce students into the intelligence culture at a younger age, how the digital revolution is changing the way we do business and why 2021 is the year of accountability and action.

Quotes
• “As you start getting a little bit older into this career, you start thinking, ‘People took care of me. There were people who took me under their wing. I wouldn’t be where I am if it weren’t for them.’ So I turned my focus on that….Our job is to make sure that we cultivate these people and move them on so they can be our leaders someday.” (9:36-11:18) 

• “If we look at the intelligence world, I think more and more we need to transition how we do education. We need to start getting younger people’s hands dirty into a skillset early on.” (18:19-18:32)

• “You have to keep changing with the environment. Commercial tech is changing the way we’re doing business. We’re all now into this digital revolution. We no longer build multi-billion dollar airplanes and do fly offs. We build digital twins. It’s all done in modeling and sim….You’re flying an aircraft that hasn’t been built yet.” (35:23-35:54)

• “I explain it to leaders like this. You’re going to go golfing, and you get your bags together, you clean your golf balls, you clean your clubs, you go out there, you get on the first tee. We line you up. We put the ball on the tee. You come back, and you’re taking that back swing, you’re getting ready to go, and you drop your club and say, ‘Ok, thank you.’... Hit the ball! Take the risk!” (43:12-43:43)

Links:
Twitter: AeroDefenseGuy (@defense_guy)  
Rich Caldwell LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caldgargan/  

https://aurorawdc.com/ 
Arik JohnsonLinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/ 
Derek JohnsonLinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Babette Bensoussan

Babette Bensoussan

June 8, 2021

Babette Bensoussan discovered the immense value of consumer insights in the 1980s when she was working as a Communications Manager at Apple. Despite the fact that Apple discouraged its employees from conducting consumer research at the time, Babette quickly fell in love with customer intelligence (CI). To her, it was clear that CI serves as a basis from which to develop sound strategies, not only in business, but also in life. 

A self-proclaimed Decision-Making Maverick™, Babette has held many titles throughout her career, from Marketing Manager to Professor to Business Coach. She now runs her own company Mindshifts, where she helps organizations, business leaders and professional executives improve their decision-making capabilities. Babette has relied on CI to inform her decisions every step of the way.

Tune into this week’s episode of Running into the Fog for a conversation between Babette and the Jo Bros about the incredible power of CI and where executives fall short when they don’t capitalize on it. Learn why analytical frameworks are like jigsaw puzzle pictures, why collaboration requires humility, and how your best students can ultimately become your biggest competitors. Most importantly, hear Babette’s take on why in order to be coachable, you need to be willing to run through the fog.

Quotes – UPDATE TIMESTAMPS!
• “I realized that a lot of corporations, a lot of executives were developing strategies in vacuums. You know, they’re all thinking they’re going to be number one, they all want to do this kind of stuff without any understanding of the external world in which they competed.” (4:56-5:13)

• “I’m a firm believer that we should all be doing the process of CI in every aspect of our life because it’s all about making better decisions.” (10:22-10:33)

• “We have so much information now that we don’t understand what that information means anymore. And without an analytical framework, how do you sort that information out?” (13:11-13:26)

• “If you don’t want to run through the fog, you can’t be coached. Quite easy. If you’re not willing to run through that fog, to learn, to question yourself, then you’re really not coachable. You’re not ready for being coached. But if you want to run through the fog, if you want someone to run beside you, to help you, then you are coachable.” (21:49-22:14)

• “I think humility will always identify how much collaboration you’ll have in anything….We talk about humility, but I talk about it as the willingness to learn. The moment you believe you have nothing to learn or you’re ‘fine’...you’re no longer teachable.” (27:46-28:23)

Links:
www.mindshifts.com.au
babette@mindshifts.com.au 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/babettebensoussan/
https://twitter.com/BabetteBen 

https://aurorawdc.com/ 
Arik Johnson LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/ 
Derek Johnson LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Joe Goldberg

Joe Goldberg

May 28, 2021

From pioneering an emergent mode of intel collection and dissemination in the 1980s with video to shredding his CIA employee file and going corporate at Motorola, Joe draws from his time on the front “spy” lines in his books dedicated to fellow intel practitioners, adding a little fiction and anonymity to cover his tracks with entertaining tales.

While he admits that “truth is stranger than fiction,” Joe uses his fictitious characters and plots to metaphorically, and directly, share important and timeless truths applicable to those in intelligence today.

Tune into this week’s episode of Running into the Fog for a conversation with Joe Goldberg and the Jo Bros about Joe’s new book The Spy Devils and its grounding in Joe’s own life experiences. Learn how a masters degree in broadcast and film got Joe into the CIA, why Joe got rid of almost 1,000 pages of his first draft, and where Joe sprinkled surprise Easter eggs throughout his book for Iowa readers. 

Quotes
• “As I say early on, truth is stranger than fiction. That was sort of a motto throughout the entire book.” (14:21-14:28)

• “If you have something to say, say it. Whether you think other people are interested or not, that’s irrelevant. Put that away. Put that fog of self-doubt in a box and put that away. Because some people are going to hate it...but that’s irrelevant!” (20:25-20:45)

• “Everything is connected. The stuff that you’re doing is connected to the people who did it before you. The people that are going to follow you and learn from you – they’re connected to you….We must remember that nothing was just made for us.” (39:13-39:41)

• “It’s up to the intelligence people of today….who are figuring out what’s the best way to do intelligence and communicate it and collect it...to our decision makers?...What’s the next YouTube?” (48:51-50:05)

• “I put it to the people who are in the fog...the people who are in intelligence today or related fields, the ethical issues are immense. They aren’t to be discarded...Ethics are you.” (50:25-51:08)

• “What types of warfare will corporations have to equip themselves for in the decade ahead?” (53:13-53:26)

• “I think there’s a back-to-the-basics world that we’re going to go back to. We’re going to have tools, whatever those tools are, and we’re going to have smart people, because there’s always smart people… but I believe there’s going to be a move toward making the complex simple to get things done.” (55:14-58:32)

Links:
Twitter: @joeGoldbergbook
Facebook & Instagram: @joeGoldbergBooks
Buy the book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Devils-Joe-Goldberg-ebook/dp/B08SJBDR61

https://aurorawdc.com/ 
Arik JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/ 
Derek JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Suki Fuller

Suki Fuller

May 11, 2021

“This is the time when we should be willing to do something different,” says London-born Suki Fuller, Founder of Miribure and Senior VP Europe of DC Analytics. Suki is an analyst with a unique, global outlook, as someone who has lived in the Middle East, China, America, and Europe--and that has made her an invaluable asset in the tech world and beyond. In this episode of Running Into the Fog, she talks with the Jo Bros about how we need to shift our outlook on a global scale to truly prepare for the future. 

Engineers are always saying “build back better.” But in this episode, Suki asks, “Why do we need to build back?” For Suki, the only way forward is to “build better,” period. We don’t need to follow the status quo, when there are better, more environmentally, fiscally, and culturally friendly ways to build our world. As she says, “It’s time to hand it off to the new guard. It’s time to look beyond the past and see what can happen in the future.” 

Tune in for a global look at the pandemic, Brexit, technology, and much more--and how we can use data and intelligence to take a holistic view and create a better path forward. 

Quotes

  • “The only thing you can be certain of is change. Change is life. Every single second, every single minute of the day is different… You have to try and do something different in order for change to happen in a bigger way.” (38:39-38:54)
  • “There are people that are afraid to challenge those that are considered ‘senior’. I think there needs to be a time of reckoning to realize that even though you may have that level of experience and respect, it’s time to hand it off to the new guard. It’s time to look beyond the past and see what can happen in the future.” (1:13:35-1:14:20)

Links:

Twitter: @SukiFuller 

LinkedIn: Suki Fuller 

Instagram: @SukiFuller

https://aurorawdc.com/

Arik JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/

Derek JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

Terry Thiele

Terry Thiele

April 27, 2021

Terry Thiele joins the Jo Bros this week and reveals he is writing a book, with a working title Our Fourth Age, a Story for My Grandchildren, trying to dissect the human population from 200,000 years ago to 10,000 years ago. Terry says the purpose of his manuscript is to explore what those destabilizing changes are and whether homo sapiens can cope--whether we’ve got a future. The way I went at it was to break the history of our species into 4 ages.

Thiele begins the discussion stepping into the past of the human population; when we were hunter gatherers. Thiele would argue that we have a set of instincts that are irreducible and that are irreversible. When we tend to perceive fear we over react to it, and we have a better chance of surviving if we are in a group. We are also desperate to have a good standing ‘status’ in a  group to survive. We are curious, in a sense pertaining to what we don't know, and understand the unknown before it gets us by the throat. 

Our pursuit of knowledge is driven to protect us. Thiele talks about present day time depth, and the difference between the current generation and ‘boomers’, and what at this time can be passed down for further learning, in relation to how past generations have left the future with tools and resources to evolve as a population.

In conversation of human nature and the basic needs of an individual, Thiele breaks it down as four needs: 

  • I want my family to be safe
  • I want to have a job to be able to provide 
  • I want my children to have a future 
  • I want you to leave me alone as long as I am not harming anyone else

As Thiele reaches the end of his manuscript, his revelation is that the next generation has failed to seek the necessary degree of change from the previous generation, looking to see how things will change as we evolve as a population. 

Arik and Thiele discuss the means of production and the booming manufacturing renaissance that may be coming, and the new predominant currencies that have surfaced such as crypto currency and the like. Thiele points out that based on UN data, the global population will decline, while opposing data suggests the population will top out in our lifetime, globally speaking. 

Discussing the economic and population causes and effects of Eastern Europe versus Japan or Korea, it is difficult to see what the global economic environment will look like in the future. In Thiele’s manuscript, he hypothesizes a few scenarios of how this may play out. Thiele hopes that his manuscript brings a healthy discussion as to how the world will look in our future. 

This episode discusses not only the history of the human population, but how these trends may affect the future. Tune in this week for an insightful conversation with Arik and Derek Johnson, and their long time friend and colleague, Terry Thiele! 

Quotes: 

  • “For any particular company at a micro economic level going into the future longer term, you have to plan for a world where you have to get a bigger piece of a smaller pie. For the first time, supply will exceed demand. And that takes most of your economics and flips it on its head.”
  •  “After 40 years [of trying to get leaders and students to think about the future], I began to realize that, when we look at the world around us, the rate and degree of change are both accelerating at an exponential rate--and we’re not prepared for it.” 
  • “For any particular company, at a microeconomic level, going into the future longer-term, you have to plan for a world where you have to get a smaller piece of a larger pie. For the first time, supply will exceed demand. And that takes most of your economics and flips it on its head.”

 

Links: 

How to get in touch with Terry: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tvthiele/

TVThiele@MSN.com

https://aurorawdc.com/

Arik JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/

Derek JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

Zena Applebaum

Zena Applebaum

April 13, 2021

After spending 12 years as the Director of Competitive Intelligence at the same law firm, Zena Applebaum had seen it all. She felt more comfortable than ever in the position, but with this comfort came a stagnancy that stifled her ability to learn and grow. Zena’s ever-present curiosity inspired her to venture into the fog and start a new role at Thomson Reuters. Although she admits that it took her over 8 months to fully understand the nuances and tactics necessary to succeed in this position, this change was just the type of challenge that she needed to bring new meaning to her life.

Zena’s journey has had no shortage of twists and turns. An expert in competitive intelligence, Zena has also taught several college-level courses, authored a book, and served on the board of the Special Library Services (SLA) for several years. These diverse experiences have allowed Zena to master her target market, develop her people skills, and learn the tactics necessary to thrive in her various roles – three things that, according to Zena, are critical for success.

On this week’s episode of Running Into the Fog, the Jo Bros speak with Zena about her personal journey to success and the crucial life lessons she learned along the way. From chaotic COVID households to the unique qualities of librarians to the fundamental differences between theory and practice, you won’t want to miss out on this engaging conversation about navigating the challenges life throws our way.

Quotes

  • “I had done it all, I had seen it all, I had spent 12 years at my firm. I was most comfortable, but I was also becoming really stagnant….I felt like I could do more, and I could learn more. And I knew that if I didn’t do it soon, I was going to be pigeonholed forever into that role.” (25:56-26:22)
  • “Market, people, and tactics. If you can master two of them, you can usually learn the third.” (33:33-33:40)
  • “The way you learn the market is by recognizing first and foremost that information for information’s sake doesn’t sell.” (35:34-35:45)
  • “It takes seven years to build trust, it takes seven minutes to erode it. Building relationships is so critical to this business. It’s critical to any business, but I think particularly if you’re doing competitive intelligence, people need to know that they can trust you, people need to know that you are going to have conversations on their behalf where you’re not going to embarrass them, where you’re not going to say something out of turn.” (42:52-43:15)
  • “I think the one thing I would tell my 20-year-old self is to chill the f out. We all get to a place eventually where we should be….I liked to plan everything, I liked to know that there was a path forward. And I still do, but I also recognize that, as much as you plan, you can’t plan for every contingency.” (46:38-47:07)

 

Links

Zena Applebaum Twitter – https://twitter.com/zappleci?lang=en 

 

https://aurorawdc.com/

Arik Johnson LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/

Derek Johnson LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

 

Gilberto Gandra

Gilberto Gandra

March 30, 2021

Gilberto Gandra, Founding Partner @ RadiusVC has a mantra: “Invest in things that change the world.” Gilberto’s career has always been mission-driven, from work in animal welfare to relationship building to a life-long commitment to diversity and inclusion. In this episode of Running Into the Fog, Gilberto talks with the Jo Bros about the impact of Covid on the pet industry, his view of intentional diversity in the startup world, and why he calls himself a “relationship strategist.”

Everyone ran into the fog during Covid, but for Giberto, the pandemic brought a bit of good luck. Just before Covid, he started working for a startup called Adopet, which provides a SaaS solution for animal shelters to streamline adoption. With Covid, shelters wanted to ditch old paper processes, and every family in America suddenly wanted a puppy. As a result, Adopet took off. 

But Gilberto isn’t just talking about animals in this episode. He always talks about the importance of investing in global, diverse problems - which he does as part of his work with the venture capital fund RadiusVC. Gilberto believes in the power of relationships to impact your life - and venture capital is the ultimate financial relationship with marginalized founders who need financial support. 

Tune in this week to hear Gilberto’s value-driven approach to finding work and people you love - and how that has changed his life. 

 

Quotes

  • “You need something that you want to solve the problem, regardless of whether you’re going to make money or not. That’s the true measure of a business worth pursuing. You can figure out a way to monetize it. If the problem is big enough, you should be able to create some economy around that problem, to solve it. The best way to change the world is to make money doing it. Otherwise, it is not self-sustaining.” (14:05-14:31)
  • “If you invest in things that are going to be changing the world, but you invest always in the same type of people... Then, you don’t get to change the world, you just get to change the world for people in that particular lens.” (22:37-22:54)

 

Links

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gilberto-gandra/

 

https://aurorawdc.com/

Arik JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/

Derek JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

 

Jeff Meyer

Jeff Meyer

March 16, 2021

Foggy times come for all of us. Times when we aren’t certain where we are headed, when we can’t see what’s next. Globally, we are in the middle of one right now. In this introductory episode, hosts Arik and Derek Johnson talk with their long-time friend and consultant Jeff Meyer, about how to run into the fog -- something they are deeply familiar with as leaders in the competitive intelligence industry, where the goal is to use data to “outfit people for the path ahead.”

Jeff is a master of moving forward through uncertainty -- hence his tagline and the name of his podcast, “Move Forward Anyway.” Jeff shares his experience of working as a consultant with both brothers for their company Aurora WDC, to help them learn how to run into the fog together. 

Tune in to hear Jeff speak about fear, uncertainty, collaboration, curiosity, and the power of moving from “expert to experiment” in the inaugural episode of Running into the Fog. 

Quotes

  • “One of the principles for me is, you glance at the far distant future, because you want to be going in that general direction, but you need to gaze at what’s right in front of you. (6:38-6:52)
  • “In each of our unique spaces, we tend to bring bias. We tend to assume an expert stance. And so I talk all the time with pastors and leaders and all kinds of other different teachers, I say, we’ve got to move from expert to experiment. And get comfortable with the adventure of discovery, and curiosity.” (25:15-25:47) 

 

Links

Facebook: jeffmeyer222 

Twitter: jeffmeyer22

LinkedIn: jeffmeyer22

Instagram: jeffmeyer22 

 

https://aurorawdc.com/

Arik JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikjohnson/

Derek JohnsonLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-johnson-cfa-190893/

Podbean App

Play this podcast on Podbean App